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1920 images but 1280 video? how?

A bit confused. Widget documentation says to create images & artwork for 1920x1080, but says to render video files for 1280x720 here:

http://www.yctvblog.com/blog/2010/05/28/vi...for-tv-widgets/

If the native display of the TV is 1920x1080, then a 1280x720 video scaled up will appear fuzzy

If the native display of the TV is 1280, then the 1920 images scaled down will lose detail (specially in the text).

This is correct assumption right? Or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Jamie

13 Replies
  • You are probably looking at old documentation. The latest documentation is online here:

    http://developer.yahoo.com/connectedtv/

    The supported image resolution is 960x540.

    http://developer.yahoo.com/connectedtv//de...and_Icon_Images

    For performance reasons HD video content should be limited to 1280x720.

    Hope this helps,
    Kelly
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  • Actually now I'm more confused. It just flipped the other way. Video is encoded at 1280x720, but image artwork should be created at 960x540? Still no match in the resolution? and 960 is SD, no?

    Thanks,

    Jamie



    QUOTE (TVWidgetDocs @ Nov 18 2010, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    You are probably looking at old documentation. The latest documentation is online here:

    http://developer.yahoo.com/connectedtv/

    The supported image resolution is 960x540.

    http://developer.yahoo.com/connectedtv//de...and_Icon_Images

    For performance reasons HD video content should be limited to 1280x720.

    Hope this helps,
    Kelly
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  • I'm not having any luck in the other forum, so I'm gona try posting here. Please, can someone give me a clear answer?


    A bit confused. Widget documentation says to create images & artwork for 1920x1080, but says to render video files for 1280x720 here:

    http://www.yctvblog.com/blog/2010/05/28/vi...for-tv-widgets/

    If the native display of the TV is 1920x1080, then a 1280x720 video scaled up will appear fuzzy

    If the native display of the TV is 1280, then the 1920 images scaled down will lose detail (specially in the text).

    This is correct assumption right? Or am I missing something?

    Thanks,

    Jamie
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  • QUOTE (jamiejohnson37 @ Nov 19 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I'm not having any luck in the other forum, so I'm gona try posting here. Please, can someone give me a clear answer?


    A bit confused. Widget documentation says to create images & artwork for 1920x1080, but says to render video files for 1280x720 here:

    http://www.yctvblog.com/blog/2010/05/28/vi...for-tv-widgets/

    If the native display of the TV is 1920x1080, then a 1280x720 video scaled up will appear fuzzy

    If the native display of the TV is 1280, then the 1920 images scaled down will lose detail (specially in the text).

    This is correct assumption right? Or am I missing something?

    Thanks,

    Jamie

    Hi Jamie,
    I think your confusion stems from the difference between the graphics plane and the video plane.

    The max size that the graphics plane will support is 960x540. Anything that you see that references 1920x1080 is old and can be disregarded.

    The video plane, on the other hand, can support varying dimensions. Please refer to that blog post you referenced earlier for supported dimensions.

    As far as your concerns about upscaling, check out the Amazon widget. That's HD 1280x720, and it doesn't look pixellated at all when upscaled.

    Hope that helps.

    - Ben
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  • Sorry but the documentation my be clear from a developer's standpoint but from a graphic artists & project managers stand point it is very confusing. Can you please tell me which is the most widely supported graphical user interface?

    The documentation shows the side bar "dock" and seems to imply this is the main UI for all widgets. However here is a full screen view of the Netflix interface: http://bit.ly/dhyXMX

    Does the widget support this level of custom UI display? Is this 960x540?

    Best regards,

    Jamie





    QUOTE (Benjamin Toll @ Nov 19 2010, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hi Jamie,
    I think your confusion stems from the difference between the graphics plane and the video plane.

    The max size that the graphics plane will support is 960x540. Anything that you see that references 1920x1080 is old and can be disregarded.

    The video plane, on the other hand, can support varying dimensions. Please refer to that blog post you referenced earlier for supported dimensions.

    As far as your concerns about upscaling, check out the Amazon widget. That's HD 1280x720, and it doesn't look pixellated at all when upscaled.

    Hope that helps.

    - Ben
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  • Merged topics
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  • The YCTV platform runs at 960x540, that is one quarter the number of pixels of the highest resolution HD mode 1080. The application runs in a 960x540 graphics plane that is composited (probably by hardware) over top of a video plane that runs at various resolutions depending on the source being decoded to video. Yahoo recommends the maximum video stream resolution be the 720 lines mode mentioned above.

    Be aware that because they are TV's, we have to distinguish intensity resolution (960x540 is the correct number) from color resolution. For various historical, technical, physiological and economic reasons, video signals/streams, and often TV screens display the color of an image at lower resolution than the intensity information. Check out Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling The practical upshot is "be sure to check that the colors along the edges of your art look right".
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  • Thanks for the clarification. I think the confusion is coming screen "resolution" vs screen "dimensions". I should have been more clear. I am not referring to the clarity or "resolution" of the images being used. I am referring to the actual screen dimensions.

    For example:

    Before we send the SDK to our developers we create a life size (1/1) wireframe of the widget app (graphics & all), just as it would look on the TV screen. If we have our widget go from side bar view to "full screen" graphic interface view (with no video) I need to size all graphics "to scale" for the full screen view"

    Are you saying all images should be created to fit a 960x540 screen "size"? Is this considered "to scale" 1/1?

    Thank you,

    Jamie



    QUOTE (jsl4tv @ Nov 22 2010, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The YCTV platform runs at 960x540, that is one quarter the number of pixels of the highest resolution HD mode 1080. The application runs in a 960x540 graphics plane that is composited (probably by hardware) over top of a video plane that runs at various resolutions depending on the source being decoded to video. Yahoo recommends the maximum video stream resolution be the 720 lines mode mentioned above.

    Be aware that because they are TV's, we have to distinguish intensity resolution (960x540 is the correct number) from color resolution. For various historical, technical, physiological and economic reasons, video signals/streams, and often TV screens display the color of an image at lower resolution than the intensity information. Check out Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling The practical upshot is "be sure to check that the colors along the edges of your art look right".
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  • I see at the very bottom of some new documentation it says the full screen display is 960x540 so I guess this is correct.

    How images sized to a 960x540 scale dont pixelate when displayed on a hi-def 55" 1920x1080 screen...but I'll take your word on it I guess, lol.

    - J



    quote name='jsl4tv' date='Nov 22 2010, 01:15 PM' post='20799']
    The YCTV platform runs at 960x540, that is one quarter the number of pixels of the highest resolution HD mode 1080. The application runs in a 960x540 graphics plane that is composited (probably by hardware) over top of a video plane that runs at various resolutions depending on the source being decoded to video. Yahoo recommends the maximum video stream resolution be the 720 lines mode mentioned above.

    Be aware that because they are TV's, we have to distinguish intensity resolution (960x540 is the correct number) from color resolution. For various historical, technical, physiological and economic reasons, video signals/streams, and often TV screens display the color of an image at lower resolution than the intensity information. Check out Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling The practical upshot is "be sure to check that the colors along the edges of your art look right".
    [/quote]
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  • Oh, there are three modes an application can run in, and yes the "side bar" mode is by convention the "normal" or "main" mode. The three modes are sidebar, fullscreen and 'snippet'. Snippet means the little icon/button that is stuck at the bottom of the screen beside other applications.
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  • You answered your own question, but I'll confirm it: Yes full screen resolution (of the widget plane) is 960x540 pixels. (Again, look out for chroma sub-sampling). I imagine that the TV's hardware is used to do the compositing of the widget plane to the video plane, and it handles the pixel 'doubling' (or quadrupling depending on your viewpoint).
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  • QUOTE (jamiejohnson37 @ Nov 22 2010, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I see at the very bottom of some new documentation it says the full screen display is 960x540 so I guess this is correct.

    Again, we don't support 1920x1080 for the graphics plane. The max size we support is 960x540. The documentation is correct.

    QUOTE (jamiejohnson37 @ Nov 22 2010, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    How images sized to a 960x540 scale dont pixelate when displayed on a hi-def 55" 1920x1080 screen...but I'll take your word on it I guess, lol.

    - J

    The images aren't upscaled, the videos are. You're still confusing the two planes. When you're viewing anything other than video, you're viewing the graphics plane, which has max dimensions of 960x540. On the other hand, when you're watching a video, you're viewing the video plane, which is 1920x1080.

    Even though the max size encoded video we support is 1280x720, the hardware upscales it to 1920x1080 and will double or quadruple the "size" of the pixels like the other poster said.

    Look at the Amazon widget and see for yourself. True, if you were as close to the tv as you are to the monitor you'd see some pixellation, but it isn't noticeable at normal viewing distance.

    - Ben
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  • Ahhh, the joys of transitioning from web development to a TV environment, lol. Gone are the days when the screen size you have is the screen size you develop for.

    I think I got in now, bottom line, develop our full screen graphic UI at 960x540 and encode our h264's at 1280x720......the rest is commentary.

    Thanks for your help Ben & everyone......

    Round 2, the snippet graphic instructions `sigh`









    QUOTE (Benjamin Toll @ Nov 23 2010, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Again, we don't support 1920x1080 for the graphics plane. The max size we support is 960x540. The documentation is correct.


    The images aren't upscaled, the videos are. You're still confusing the two planes. When you're viewing anything other than video, you're viewing the graphics plane, which has max dimensions of 960x540. On the other hand, when you're watching a video, you're viewing the video plane, which is 1920x1080.

    Even though the max size encoded video we support is 1280x720, the hardware upscales it to 1920x1080 and will double or quadruple the "size" of the pixels like the other poster said.

    Look at the Amazon widget and see for yourself. True, if you were as close to the tv as you are to the monitor you'd see some pixellation, but it isn't noticeable at normal viewing distance.

    - Ben
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